Dommed by the Divine: A convo with Ginny Muir

The liberation you seek lies in submitting to what you resist—again and again and again.

In this first-ever guest episode of Business Priestess Activation™, host Elizabeth Rowan and Ginny Muir of The Lovers' Collective go all the way there.

From divorce, devotion, and the Underworld to submission, self-trust, and the divine assignment, Elizabeth and Ginny explore why the same patterns keep appearing in our relationships, our leadership, and our work, and what happens when we actually embrace being dommed by the Divine.

Together, they unpack the vulnerability of being fully seen, the survival strategies shaping our businesses and relationships, the responsibility required to inhabit our gifts, and the surprising freedom found in submitting to—and therein co-creating with—The Mystery.

This is a conversation about dancing with the Divine, untangling shame, body-of-work reverence, the vulnerability of visibility, and the terrifying possibility that the thing you've spent years trying to hide may be exactly what you're here to embody.

If you've ever wondered why the same edge keeps finding you; why success leaves you feeling itchy, scratchy, and hungry for more; why the assignment won't let you go,

drop in.

This one might change the way you understand love, leadership, and the life that's asking (begging!) to be lived through you.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:05

Welcome to Business Priestess Activation, audio drops for mystics and business, where entrepreneurship is ritual, strategy is soulcraft, and expansion is inevitable. I'm Elizabeth Rowan, spiritual mentor, yogi, and business priestess. Here we don't do formulas, we do fire. These transmissions are potent activations to ignite your long-term strategy, self-leadership, energetic mastery and embodiment, and lasting legacy in the world. Because your sacred work isn't just business, it's business and being. Let's begin. Welcome back, priestess. I am excited today to bring you the first guest, the first guest of Business Priestess Activation, my dear fellow depth diving and arguably fellow almost death-defying friend and relational priestess Ginny Muir. Ginny and I met 10 years ago. Wow, goosebumps. Both of us in the early wildly untethered years following our respective divorces, subsequent baby's first spiritual pilgrimage, and Matrix breaking ways away from our literal debutante lives and approved societal checklist accomplishments, and taking ourselves swiftly to the underworld as you do. That is precisely where we met, literally and figuratively, in Atlanta, Georgia, by way of Peru. And now we share over 30 years of facilitation work, spiritual relationship, and sacred business between us. Cut to present. Ginny is an exceptionally talented relationship oracle, a fellow Georgia girl, even though she's tuning in today from the jungle of Costa Rica, ever cultivating deep relationship with the Capital M mystery, and most recently founder of her now signature offer. We're gonna talk about that part, The Lovers Collective, that we work together on bringing forth inside my one-on-one business mentorship. And we have quite a meet, cute story, but it wouldn't be us if it was not acutely death adjacent. So come with us on a journey. This is October 2016. I am barely back from baby's first trip to Peru. Baby's first, you and I both. Peru, like first goes, plant medicine, tattoos, spiritual pilgrimage, the works. And I am hosting a highly death-oriented my one of my now signature offers, Supernatural Sutra at a yoga studio here in Atlanta. Ginny and I had been connected by the woman who had hosted me in Peru, who you went to undergrad with, if I'm correct, which is amazing. And Ginny comes into this dark studio. It's at night. I have hotboxed us with incense. Lights are low, candle lit. And you come in and you say, Hi, I'm Ginny. I just, this will be my first yoga practice since ACL surgery. To which I say, Welcome, hand you a blindfold and say, This is gonna be dark and twisty. Take it from here.

Speaker 2 3:48

And I was like, and why not? Why not? Why not? You know, when you when we were connected, and of course, your first invitation was like, Yes, I would love to meet up. Absolutely. You know, you should come to this class I'm teaching. And I think it had like a very Elizabeth, you know, beautifully designed evocative underworld sales page for a yoga class. One would hope. And I was just like, I'm going to that. Sure am. Sure am going to that. And ACL surgery be damned. I probably was like just out of the window of approved, of approved exercise. And I was like, why not? Why not get back on the mat right now in a dark room with a blindfold on? Why would we make this a gentry entry? Leave it to us.

Speaker 1 4:45

Leave it to us. And in that moment in time, like I mentioned, you and I were both a few years divorced each. And in that really tender, really untethered in-between of who am I if I am not all of those things that I worked so hard to accomplish for the external. And in the very messy, early, early spiritual awakening phase. We were also both on Tinder. Messily dating, hot messily dating, reorienting, if not even reorienting, orienting healthily in air quotes. It's very relative. For the first time with the masculine from any remotely spiritual lens, while being really inside out, tender, vulnerable, like fucked up emotionally, and trying our damnedest to get back on our feet.

Speaker 2 5:48

And I would say, you know, a thing I think is resonant from both of our journeys is in some ways it was our first actual foray into what is the relational wounding that I have avoided looking at, right? Because we each chose into marriages where we kind of didn't have to hit that. Like there was a way that it could be very holographic, very performative, very surface level, very like not really touching anything that was the true deep content that we were here to alchemize relationally. And I remember feeling like a baby, right? Because I got married at 26. And me too. Right. And kind of just paused any relational growth from that moment on until getting divorced at 35. And so it felt like emerging technically as a 35, 36-year-old, but feeling much more like, oh, I'm still in my early 20s when it comes to how much I've actually excavated, navigated, and then life was like, let's give you a whole lot of mirrors to show you your shadows in the form of these men that you're dating.

Speaker 1 7:02

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I that first trip to Peru for me, I went very intentionally to heal what I thought was a father wound that actually surprising no one came to be a mother wound. And in doing so, I talk about it like tipping the first domino of this just surge of caricatures in this kind of funhouse mirror way that you're talking about, of men that I had to got to, and I say that all the time in business, had to got to experience myself with and before in order to remotely see the breadth and depth of the wounding that I was working with. And I think that's where you and I met, and I think that's why you and I met also in the underworld to have this like like we laugh about it like at that point in time, like baby witches from Harry Potter, like flirty and cute and like hair tossed, but actually doing incredible work and harm and magic, and all of that together, holding hands the blind, leading the blind, but with an asterisk of like actual heart behind it, actual curiosity, actual desire to be excavating for us en route to something beyond just us. Like it wasn't just a selfish heal myself, heal yourself at all costs. It was like, wow, if I'm gonna do any inkling of this work that I've barely begun in the world, the onus is on me and only me to sort at least some of this mess out in order to just clear the field, like clear the vision. And you and I have been, we've been in combo about this for several years now. We certainly have been being, quote, dommed by the divine since the jump. And the origin of this conversation to everybody listening is Ginny and I realized we couldn't keep having this conversation and not loop you in. Like, there's so much richness and gold here on the business front, on the relational front, like spoiler alert, those are the same things that we absolutely have to share. And this cuts to the deepest essence of Ginny's relational work. This cuts to the deepest essence of my work in business and being. And I think we want to start by defining our terms because it's cute to throw around like kink language, and you know, like that's becoming buzzy, which we love to see it, and there's some responsibility I think therein. So on the whole BDSM and sub metaphor, I have thoughts and I know you do too. So absolutely jump in. Um, a first thought that comes through for me in terms of domed by the divine is less surrender, more actual conscious, participatory submission, which is a state of co-creation, not a state of just passive, you've been completely run over, collapse. Quite the contrary.

Speaker 2 10:34

Yeah, the the the phrase I use all the time is surrendered participation. Right. So when people ask me, because I think like from the outside now, same as you, it looks very much, and it actually is true, that we have created these lives for ourselves, which are quite congruent with who we actually are, which are quite ecstatic a lot of the time, which are very magical, which feel robust and not perfect, right? Not like my life is perfect, but there is a reflection I receive a lot, which is you feel it feels to me like you're doing life in a different way and succeeding. How do you do it? And my whenever I'm asked that, I sort of sigh and pause and prepare to deliver disappointing news because it's by surrendered participation. And that surrender is not floppy, it's not a holdout for like someone coming to save you. It is this full acceptance of the conditions presented, even and especially when you hate them. That part, right? And a willingness to take action with so much trust. It's the trust piece, right? So it requires actually an incredible amount of energy. Surrender sometimes gets a bad rap that it's this very passive, that it is almost like a disassociative state. But surrender requires an incredible amount of energy because it requires a lack of fighting against, right? Which is not to be confused with a lack of fighting for, but it's a lack of fighting against and um a willingness to just be like, okay, and now it's like this, and how am I gonna be with this? Because it there's there's a way that you have to trust that what is going on is happening for you, and is being issued as a challenge by this is the divine part, like whatever it is that you relate to as the big one, as the mystery, as the unknowable thing that is more intelligent than you, wider than you, has a has a whole design. And so there's this trust in that design and simultaneous deep trust in self to meet whatever that design dishes out. And this is the role of the sub, actually, right? So yeah, I would love to hear what you riff on that.

Speaker 1 13:17

100%. This is the role of the sub, actually, is rather than so. I see things in shapes, and we're gonna talk about that as it applies to Ginny's work here shortly. But if you visualize yourself in a state of collapse, like on the floor, flailing, wailing, usually accompanied by flailing and wailing, often accompanied by shaming and blaming, like completely outsourced, right? She's left the building. Sovereignty is nowhere to be found. That is an option. I mean, I've taken that option routinely. And the alternative that we're excited to explore today is like if you see yourself laying there on the living room floor or wherever you are, versus holding eye contact with in this metaphor, the allness, the divine, God, goddess, the universe, the works. Holding eye contact and getting onto your knees in this spoken, intentional, conscious agreement of yes, we are doing this thing. And that has nothing to do with the ego flares around what the actual desi divine assignment may reveal itself to be. So it's very much obviously, I hope obviously, trust-based. And this applies yes to divine relationship, yes to your business. And in addition to the trust piece, it's the saying yes a hundred times a day when arguably the quote unquote, this is super air quotes, easier quote option would be the alternative. I came back from New Mexico last month and went to a coffee shop that's a block from me. And one of a couple of the baristas there are yoga students. So we see each other sometimes morning and night. And one of them said to me, I love how you live. This like running at life thing. And I said, you know, as opposed to what? And you and I have talked about that at length. But when we're talking through this metaphor, dommed by the divine, it is intentional and conscious and mutually trust-based because you don't know the full picture assignment or outcome.

Speaker 2 15:57

And that's the point, right? The point and what is very, very true in a dom sub dynamic is that the whole thing is actually about the sub. She drives, he drives, they drive. The limit everything. The Dom is entirely focused on the sub's experience, and everything that is happening is in service of that experience being a liberating, freeing, healing experience. So, as the sub, you have to choose a dom that you trust and do that well with attunement and attention. And the number one rule of a good Dom is they never leave. And so really realizing that the universe is the divine, the mystic is the best Dom of all time, requires that even in those moments when you're like anything but this, please, please, please, anything but this, not going to that place where you think that the divine has forsaken you, that it has left the building because it doesn't. So feeling that uncomfortable thing of anything but this, and also knowing that it is all orchestrated and all for you at the same time, that's like that is the practice.

Speaker 1 17:25

I mean, a million times a day. And this shows up, I'm gonna be repeating myself, but this shows up, of course, in all manner of relationships. So we're not just talking romantic relationship, as well as in your business and sacred work, and often to that piece, Jenny, around not falling for the kind of wound response that the universe has forsaken you, is often where shame comes in. And I know in my work with so many spiritual business owners and facilitators and visionaries over the years, if and when there is the slightest uh asterisk on their work, their results, our work together, just like I'm sure in relationship, it is almost always traceable to shame. Because it is so vulnerable. I wish you all could see me, like doing the Hanuman, tearing his heart open gesture of this heart open, tender, bleeding offering into the world. Your sacred work is your business because we're not just talking about, you know, selling a product. This is like the essence of you, same as any kind of relationship, certainly intimate, and also every other kind of relationship.

Speaker 2 19:01

Yeah, and like look at you, you usually need look no further than your family of origin. Usually to see where did the assignment begin. What is the what is the context? What was the conditioning? What was the the thing that was so challenging to figure out how to survive as a little one? That's a in inside a lot for a lot of people, inside of that is the assignment. And I'll never forget my, you know, we we've spoken of Peru, my life's greatest teacher, Javier Riguero, an ayahuascaro who had my number. And to this day, he has now transitioned on to the great, the great disco ball in the sky. Um, but he gave me these one-liners that still to this day, 15 years later, come back and I'm like, wow, I'm now, I'm just now getting it. But he told me at one point, Jenny, you will continue to go around the world looking for your teachers until you realize they are right here in the form of your parents and your family of origin. And that's actually where the richest content lies. It's not traveling across the world to sit at the feet of a guru who is speaking ascension language or whatever. It's what is right here. What did you incarnate into? What did your soul sign up for? Look there first to what it is that you're here to transmute and transform inside of relationships. And like you were speaking about, there's kind of two primal wounds I really see. And the one is the first is shame, right? Which is I'm not enough. And then the flip side of that coin is abandonment. I fear abandonment, which is I'm too much. And one of those two things is usually at play. Um, and you were speaking of your business. I think this is really interesting because in the language of masculine feminine and the language of Shiva Shakti, it is the masculine wound that is shame, that is, I'm too much. And a lot of times what we're leaning into when we're leaning into our business is drawing on our own healthy masculine energy to create, to penetrate, to fuck life, right? With our work and our genius and our brilliance. And that can also show up in relationship, obviously. But a sneaky thing that shows up especially for feminine beings in relationship, because the feminine wound is abandonment, makes sense, centuries of conditioning that we need, we need masculine selection and choice in order to survive. So if I am abandoned, I might die. If I am too much, I might die. So in relationship, especially for feminine beings, there's a lot of fawning. There's people pleasing, there's anything to stay in connection as some of the content. But you're right, like it's all gonna boil down probably to one of those two primal fears shame or abandonment.

Speaker 1 22:15

Totally. And it's even after, you know, the humans I get to work with, and I imagine you as well, are not new to this concept or conversation. And the longer we're in it, it's like that whole thing of for every new level, there's a new freaking level. And it starts to get, you know, we're working it out and we're excavating and we're integrating and we're doing all of the things. And so we're starting to make progress in the alchemy, and it starts to get a little more wily and trickstery because your system is hell-bent on this is actually life or death. It actually is. And whether we're talking about dating or a piece of content for Instagram, both of which examples sound somewhat light, if not superficial, those are the most epic metaphors. I mean, like small examples, but metaphors for this whole thing. So no one's coming to work with me thinking we're gonna put together a $27 internet funnel. Like that's not the thing. Nor you over there are not doling out three easy steps to get him to choose you. Thank you. Yeah. So it's like this there's a richness, there's a desire to, the word mastery is loaded and it's not quite what I'm going for, but there's a desire to really Yeah, it's like a skillfulness.

Speaker 2 24:03

It's a get in there. Yeah.

unknown 24:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:06

And it's a building of self-trust, right? So as we try things out, as we forge new neural pathways, as we watch ourselves want to go into the wounded collapsed reaction, recognize that's just a part of us, do the impossibly heavy lifting of choosing something different, seeing what happens, more often than not, it's a positive outcome, which is all our systems need to start laying down an entirely new neural pathway. 100% wiring the system. But you've got to do the experiments. You have it's reps, right? It's like whenever people are talking to me about relationship, I'm like, yeah, I know. I know what your system wants to do. You want to do whatever your stress responsive choice, you want to freeze, you want to fight, you want to flee, you want to fawn. Recognize that the draw to that, the pull to that, understand why it's there. Know it's just a part of you that wants to do that, and feel the access to the other part of you, which has a different idea, you know, at which we can I can pepper ideas and populate ideas. How about this? Maybe this. And it will be something that feels truly authentic to who you are, but almost so authentic to who you are that it's risky. It's terrifying. That vulnerability of like, oh, this is me without defense. This is me without protection. This is me just saying the truth of what's in my heart. Oh, you know, and then when you get to watch the wildly different impact that that has on the relationship dynamic, on the efficacy of the marketing, on the richness of the offer, on the, you know, lightness and fluidity of the relational experience, our systems are building data points to because once something works, we never repeat anything that doesn't work. Right. So whatever our collapsed strategies are, we do them because they worked for us in some way in childhood, you know, and it was a it was a survival game back then. So you can recognize that right, in some way this worked, but it didn't work. What got me here won't get me there, right? So trying something new and watching it work to take you somewhere you have not yet been is this positive generative cycle that just takes like getting the momentum going. And I know that you see this in your work too. Like you just got to get people like just start, just start doing a different thing. Like, trust me, just do it. And so now I'm seeing in our work, we get to have that Dom energy for the people that we work with, you know, of like, I know what you need to do, I know it's gonna be good for you, just do it, report back.

Speaker 1 26:55

That is a hundred percent not lost on me. Yes. And I mean, it's it's such a dance and it's such a mirror. And of course, it is a ritual. I mean, that's my entire worldview on business. But where you're speaking to is desiring to create new evidence for yourself. And that sounds big and it does not have to be this whole massive overhaul. But like I literally tell my people like, you have to want this 1% more, 1% more, then it's terrifying you, and then we can get somewhere. And it's interesting because you know, the work that I do, of course, includes and spans far beyond marketing, but the vulnerability of being seen and expression or lack thereof that marketing invites slash demands is essentially its own relational field. Because whatever the quote unquote uh survival instinct is will show up in your business in that way. Of course. Too much, you're not enough, and whatever is happening in the business is pointing like five alarm fire to what that is. So lovingly downloading another $11 offer, isn't it? Lovingly. However, this work that Jenny and I are both speaking of is really an invitation. It's such an invitation to essentially break through the plateau of your own life, yes, relationally, yes, business-wise, which is also, you know, the financial piece. And it's a route that we at least find to that you seem like you're doing life. You seem like you're doing life right in a way that's really invigorating in in honor of your actual radiant self that we're all here to arrive at. So I think what we're getting at too is there's an element of this that your relationships, and again, we're talking about, and I want to get into this in a second. We're talking about friendships, familial, intimate, relationship with yourself, relationship with the divine, and on and on. That and the business are really going to point you to what you're most trying to hide as the tipping point. Like, if this were a visual podcast, I would want a big red arrow pointing. Yeah. Whatever you're trying to hide and like contort around as being actually the thing that on arrival is a total freaking. Well, maybe there's some exhilaration first. Like we go down the roller coaster, and then there's an exhale. Such an exhale.

Speaker 2 30:07

Yeah, and it's back to that thing. Whenever you can feel in your system, oh no, no, no, anything but that. Anything but that. Anything. Red arrow towards the anything but that.

Speaker 1 30:21

The exit.

Speaker 2 30:22

100% of the time.

Speaker 1 30:23

Yeah. Like the quote is the it's probably Rumi. The wound is the place where the light enters you. Totally that. I've mentioned this in passing and would love to get into this here, but you know, when you and I worked together on your now signature offer, and arguably body of work, the Lovers Collective, we were really fleshing out this expression of relating and creating equally, although you didn't know it at the time, a body of work via the different ways you can be in relationship. And some of you listening, if you're my clients, you would know this, but I mentioned this at the top. I see things in shapes, which is kind of wild, but this applied to Ginny's work. Do you want to talk about that a bit?

Speaker 2 31:23

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, you and I are dear sisters and friends, and it's it's a choice to become a client to your friend. It does require some relational skillfulness and capacity to like really create clear agreements and inhabit, choose into. But I really trusted us to do that. And I knew that I needed to come to you because of the way that you see things, because I was actually in the first ever moment in my business, having been working for 15 years, knowing that my work works, really full schedule, you know, sold out one-on-ones, right? Like I'm not in the place where it's what do I do and am I good at it? I know that my work works. I know that I could be serving more people. And the way that I'm starting to recognize that there's something else that's trying to happen is that my work, which is deeply satisfying to me, is starting to feel a little cumbersome, which is the first, the first indication that there's a transformation that's wanting to happen because it's not that I don't love my work anymore. It's that it's trying to become bigger and it's outgrowing its current form and container. But I had no idea what the new thing was supposed to be. I had some, I was like, okay, I think there's probably a group program because the one thing I could feel is I don't want to just be saying all the things that I'm saying, which are changing people's lives one person at a time or two people at a time. I want to be able to say this and impact more people and ripple it out further because I deeply want to create a world where people are more relationally skillful. And so I had this like, okay, I'm going to create a scaled offer. I think that's da-da-da. But, anyways, I came to you and was like, yeah, can you help me just like design this cute group program? And I remember in our intensive session, because you're very efficient and you just get right to it. You were like, Well, first of all, it's not a group program. This is your signature offer. This is the center of your body of work. And I was like, Oh, but also, because then what that means is admitting that I have a body of work.

unknown 33:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:45

Which actually, 15 years in, I do. And two years in, I didn't. Three years in, I didn't. I was still like finding my way, doing beautiful, supportive things for people, but not bringing something uniquely through me that I didn't just learn and figure out my own spin on from someone else. It was like, oh, it's taken me 15 years, which is actually an appropriate amount of time to be a student and a practitioner. But now I'm 45 years old. I've been doing this for 15 years. I do have a body of work. And so it was your mirroring of that to me, which pushed me over my uncomfortable edge of claiming that through that wound of like, but maybe I'm not enough. Right. Do I? Is it okay? Is it good? And just you being like, doesn't matter. Just we're doing it. Like, keep talking, keep dreaming, keep telling me. And you were the first one to say. So when you phrased it like that, I was like, oh, then this is an invitation for modules that make a linear group program. This is an invitation for me to codify my entire body of work. What is it that I teach people that is uniquely my way? And you were the one who said, and I was like, it's connective tissue because my work is very mycelial. It's not line. I was starting to talk about all of the visuals and all of the images that were coming to me. And you were like, I see concentric circles. And I have shivers because I've the entire organizing principle. Because I was like, of course. And then out came the post-it notes and post-it notes, all the different things that I teach people, which I hadn't really seen how they were connected, because I do teach ritual and and um, you know, earth relationship and creating a two-way conversation with a divine. And I also teach rupture and repair frameworks and how to move through a conflict in a good way and active listening. And I teach knowing your own nervous system, knowing your own child consciousness, learning what your unique adaptive child strategies are, understanding how the masculine and feminine weave inside of your unique self. And so when I started to make the post-its in the circles, it became so clear that it was like, oh, there's intimacy with self at the center, and then there's intimacy with other that radiates out from that, and it's all held in the outer circle, which is an intimacy with the mystery. And that's what I do is working, yeah.

Speaker 1 36:21

Enter the lover's collective. Yeah. Enter collective. Yes. When you were talking about the ah but eek part, I'm thinking of that meme or video where the guy's like, hold my hand, hold my hand, are you ready? And they start running, and the person is just screaming, and it's amazing. And it is all of us at any given time. But what you spoke to, I mean, I have full-body goosebumps and tears in my eyes. And the essence of the work that I do is reflect to you the gravity of not just your work in the world, but your place in the world. What you're here incarnated to do in relationship, in all of the ways that you just riddled off. And it's the eek moment is because if it is that level of gravity, then that implies it's pretty important. That implies I'm responsible for something. And that can be a heck of a lot to hold. And it is among, in my worldview, among the greatest initiations. If that doesn't scare you out of your mind, I have questions. And so you and I did that.

Speaker 2 37:50

And you know, I think that's so cool, is that you know, I'm thinking about the journey through the feminine stages of life, the maiden into the mother, into the matriarch, into the crone. But the the primary shift from maiden to mother is orienting away from just focus on self and survival and like making it through to opening and orienting out to what am I responsible for? What am I stewarding? What am I caretaking? What is actually mine to tend if it's not just me? And it feels like a scary edge to walk over. But the thing that is amazing on the other side is it feels better.

Speaker 1 38:31

It's liberating.

Speaker 2 38:33

It's so much better to be responsible for something else bigger than just to be self-revolved, navel gazing. Can I make it through the day? Like a black hole party of one. Totally. It feels edgy, but the more we step into that responsibility, the more it actually feels deeply good. And it's the same thing relationally. Is it easier to just like go along your merry way and tend your stuff yourself and handle your things and not have to lean into conflict or the challenge of actually deeply relating with another being? Is it easier? Yeah. Is it terrifying to actually turn towards and open to another human and co-create any given moment with this unruly creature that you cannot control? Like, yeah, but it's also way more interesting. And you will learn a lot more than just sitting on the sidelines and hermiting away. In whatever way you're choosing to relate, whether that's with turning towards your family, whether that's turning towards, you know, your friendships, your community, your romantic relationship, all of it, the willingness to turn towards and to say, I'm here to actually do interdependence from a sovereign place is where the juice is.

Speaker 1 40:02

I'm here to do interdependence from a sovereign place, and I seem to have some marching orders. Yeah, particularly unique to me.

Speaker 2 40:13

Because just like with this, it's like, what is the legacy of love that you are here to leave in this lifetime? You have a unique curriculum, and you can often identify what that is by what did you inherit that's actually illusory, that's not truth, that's not your highest expression. So for both you and I, coming from the patriarchal south, as you said, actual literal debutants in white dresses, performing eligible to society at 20 years old or whatever.

Speaker 1 40:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 40:50

The alchemy of that into I will not trade my expression for safety. I will actually choose me first, having come from a long line of women who had to prioritize safety over their own truth, over their own expression. I could really see, I'm like, oh, that's my assignment. My assignment is to alchemize that wound for my lineage. Okay, here we go.

unknown 41:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 41:23

And now you're in, we've come full circle because now we're back to yes, the divine assignment, and also being in a state of surrendered participation to said divine assignment.

Speaker 2 41:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1 41:39

And turning toward that and consciously, you know, uh fostering, nurturing uh that relationship. And it is usually not super cute. Sometimes, most of the time, it is really gnarly. And I, and I know you know this and agree with this, but I finally came to a place where when things would get super crunchy and void and underworld and all the things, I was like, oh, this is a turn on because I know here comes the good stuff. Here it comes. Whatever it is, I don't know. We'll find out. But when things would get really death adjacent, it actually became the cosmic green light of whatever was coming that apparently I needed at the time. And yeah, many an ego death, so much vulnerability, so much trust that took time to cultivate. The devotional element, I mean it's availing yourself, but not like passing out like a fainting goat. I've tried that.

Speaker 2 43:14

And you know, the other thing is like there is no finish line that is a part of the whole deal. Right? There is no, there is always more material to alchemize your way through. And including, right, when you reach the proverbial or the you know, what our society has deemed as the finish line of like getting married, which I did a year and a half ago, being like, oh, you know, we did it. No, no, we did not do it. The work has just begun. And still inside of that relationship, there are moments when I'm like, this is not my preference. I would like a different thing, please. And I've learned enough to know, of course, it's not my preference because it's my work to do. So And sometimes because of how our systems react in those moments, it takes us a minute to actually get clear on what is the work to do instead of just like railing against. It's okay to rail against for a time. You know, it's okay to be like, I'm gonna have a tantrum, I'm gonna vent about this, I don't like this thing. And then there's gonna come a moment when something pops open and you're like, I really don't like this thing because of this thing in me that actually could be tended to have a more liberated and spacious experience and feeling for like where is the assignment? What is the assignment asking me to do? Is it that I become more trusting, or is it that I actually hold a boundary, or is it and it's gonna be different person to person? So it's not like, oh, when this situation arises, always do this. Because for some people, the medicine is gonna be to walk away. For some people, the medicine is going to be to turn towards and stay with and trust into and lean in. And it's whatever thing feels harder, is the thing that you're supposed to do, usually.

Speaker 1 45:08

Forever, forever, forever, and the most rewarding. And I feel like you and I could wax poetic on this, but I would love to have maybe you and I both together riff on what is actually possible and what's different, what's possible that's different in conscious submission. Like what is it, what is the flavor of that reality? I know business, for example. Um we really stand to and again have to get to alchemize the differentiator between yourself and the business as this outside external material thing beyond just you that has you putting this mask on and off all day. Like, let me go do my spiritual practice over here and then that mask off. Now business owner mask on. And it's disjointed and it's also painfully inauthentic to your system when the alternative is the conscious submission possibility, is that actually it's all the same thing. Your business is an element of your spiritual practice, and then you're not lifting out of yourself all day in business execution, and then also wondering why it's quote not working because it's actually not the essence of you. What's a relational equivalent, if you will?

Speaker 2 46:48

Yeah, so I think that the thing that when one has really learned to choose submission, the shocking thing that actually comes from that is freedom. And uh we love to be victimized inside of our relationships, but it is very easy to be like, I am victim to I am victim to this one over here who I'm in relationship with, I'm victim to their way of being. Victimization is actually the opposite of freedom. So when you can actually see these your relational challenges as uh opportunities for liberation, it's so much more pleasurable than feeling powerless inside of them. So here is a thing that I'm confronted with. How do I want to choose to move? Liberating, freeing, and creates such a different day-to-day experience of being in relationship with whomever. It opens creativity, it unlocks the part of us that is wily and sees possibility and gets curious and tries things out and is actually so much more playful than downtrodden, beaten down here, long-suffering, constantly in process, you know, it's an opportunity to actually see what meet what what it is that we fear, which it's like that which we fear will expose us as weak somehow. To meet that actually has the counterintuitive effect of showing us how powerful we really are, and that yeah, that is like this deep being honest, saying what's so, leaning into the truth of what is, especially when it terrifies us, and knowing that the only thing that can come of it is something more expansive and liberating, as opposed to something that will destroy us forevermore.

Speaker 1 49:18

I mean, if we do one thing on in this incarnation, it is that it is that it's that sliding into your grave sideways. What a ride.

Speaker 2 49:28

Love it. I mean, that quote, put it on my tombstone, you know.

Speaker 1 49:32

What a ride. Um, okay, well let everyone know where to find you. What do you I know you have some things coming up that we would want to be a part of?

Speaker 2 49:46

Yeah. I mean, the Lovers Collective is so I have just completed or am completing in this moment the first three-month cohort of that program, in which I have discovered that I'm obsessed with it. That's the best, that is my favorite thing I've ever created, I've ever taught. It is so rich. It is like truly all of my best stuff, just getting pumped into that place and just ever building and growing and taking more and more solid form. And I'm reopening the doors on June 23rd for the second cohort, which will start July 1st. And it's an ongoing offer, right? It's a every three months we're going to reopen enrollment for now. And um people can stay. A lot of the people from the first from the first cohort are continuing on. I love that. I would that's my desire. Um, that it serves people for as long as it serves them and that there's just more new content and richness. So the doors are reopening to that, and I'm stoked and would love to have people inside. And just put out a new website, which you helped me with as well, which was Lord a labor of love. So you can find me at ginnymuir.com and learn about the Lovers Collective there, as well as my one-on-one mentorship work and my two-on-one relationship coaching work, which is also both of those things. My one-on-one mentorship is like deep passion of my heart, just to help people unlock their own unique ecstatic existence in whatever way is it, whatever the assignment is, helping to identify the assignment and becoming the Dom pushing you.

Speaker 51:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:34

And then in my two-on-one relationship alchemy work, I get to work really deeply with people in relationship, with couples, with colleagues, with collaborators, with family members, with friends. I've worked with all different kinds of relational dynamics to really unlock the medicine of that unique dynamic. And wherever we're stuck is where the juice is. So we get to really go towards that together. So all of that's on my website.

Speaker 1 52:02

And incredible.

unknown 52:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1 52:04

Beautiful. Well, everybody listening, absolutely go check all of that out. Ginny is on Instagram at Ginny Muir. And if you are here listening, you found one of my entry points, Business Priestess Activation Living Channel of Audio Drops. And I work primarily with mystics, spiritual entrepreneurs, oracular leaders and visionaries, tearing their Hanuman hearts open to the world to bring forth your yes, gravity-laden purpose. And I do that in one-on-one. That's the way in which Jenny and I were working on her program, The Lovers Collective. I also create and run a year-long Fire of Transformation Mastermind that is an epic cauldron of all of this and more, specifically long-term strategy so that your work actually lives beyond, say, your Instagram feed. Self-leadership, energetic mastery and embodiment, and the legacy piece that Ginny and I were talking about of making your work serve deeper and far beyond just you. And you can find more about that at my website, elizabethowanyoga.com. And I also am on social at Elizabeth Rowan Yoga. So thank you one million, Ginny. You and I could talk for five days on all of this. In fact, we might do a take two, a part two rather. Stay tuned for that. Everyone tuning in, thank you so much for being here. Absolutely go connect with Ginny and I both for more where this came from. And let us know if this lights you up in some way. That would mean the world.

Speaker 2 54:10

I just have to give one like very specific plug for you because I think it's a unique spot to be in, like the place that I was in when I came to you. Because there's a way in which when our work works and we're satisfied by what we're doing, and our calendars are full and we're booked out, it can be super easy to stay there. And that is for some people. That's like a beautiful way. If that is how your system is like, nope, actually, this is where I live. This is where I inhabit. Like, that's amazing. But if you have this itchy, scratchy feeling, like I'm starting to get a little numb, a little dead inside. When I look at my calendar for the day, it's such a important thing to have a midwife doula over that threshold. Because that to me, it's like it is actually a part of eldering. You know, it's a part of stepping into and fully claiming your seat, which was a language that you and I used a lot, as not just like another hidden, like if you happen to walk by the hut and see the shingle come in for walk-ins available, you know, right. But actually, I'm gonna take my seat fully and hold this bigger thing. I just think there's such a gift that you have for inspiring people into that particular growth edge and that your intensives also so efficient. You know, I was like, what are we gonna be able to do in like whatever it was, like one session and then box? Yeah, I can't even remember the format because I was like, well, actually a lot as it turns out. So also, yeah, just run, don't walk if that's the moment that you're in in your business, because it's hard, it's a hard thing to do by yourself.

Speaker 1 56:10

It is very difficult. It is very difficult to do that solo.

Speaker 2 56:13

Just like spotting your relational wounds, like your unique child strategies, your unique pattern that plays on repeat. Like I tell people all the time, you can't see what you can't see. You need someone who can. That's where I come in. Right. Because I'm a nerd and a student and obsessed with human relational dynamics. And I promise you, I could spot it. Like, give me 10 minutes.

Speaker 1 56:37

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, thank you. I'm hugging you so tight and a thousand percent feel the same for yours. Thank you, my love. So fun. You stay on. Everybody else, thank you. Let us know, come back for more, and we'll see you on the path. Bye for now.